SPAAM Collectors Forum
Welcome to The SPAAM Collectors Forum!

SPorts Autographs And Memorabilia

Create a FREE account to get full access to the forum!

Ivan Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Jason Varitek, e.t.c Retired! Your thoughts?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Ivan Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Jason Varitek, e.t.c Retired! Your thoughts?

Post by twinsvikingsfan333 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:18 pm

What are your thoughts about them? about any that have or will retire this year.
avatar
twinsvikingsfan333
Starter
Starter

Join date : 2011-12-18
Posts : 469
SPAAM Cash : 4093
Reputation : 15

Back to top Go down

Re: Ivan Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Jason Varitek, e.t.c Retired! Your thoughts?

Post by coachk28 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:21 pm

Personally.... IMHO

I was never a big fan of Pudge.

Always liked Posada and Varitek... even though they played for 2 teams most people can't stand.

All three had amazing careers. Pudge and Posada I think will get in the HOF!

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  l  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  l   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  l    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] l [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
avatar
coachk28
SPAAM Founder
Chief Administrator

 SPAAM Founder  Chief Administrator

Age : 37
Join date : 2011-12-14
Posts : 3296
SPAAM Cash : 13332
Reputation : 207
Location : Chicago, IL

http://coachkscollection.weebly.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Ivan Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Jason Varitek, e.t.c Retired! Your thoughts?

Post by lerxst2112 on Tue May 01, 2012 2:48 am

Not sure about the HOF possibilities. Pudge's numbers are no brainer first ballot numbers, but there's the stigma of performance enhancing drugs. Did he? Didn't he? We don't know... but the belief he might have will be hard to overcome. I don't think Posada has those problems, but I'm not sure he's HOF caliber. I guess his offense was decent enough, but defensively... yikes. Check Posada against the likes of Bill Freehan, Ted Simmons and Joe Torre. They all had more All Star appearances, MVP votes and all were better defensively. Depending on the BBWAA moods, both could be on the outside looking in for quite some time.
avatar
lerxst2112
Benchwarmer
Benchwarmer

Age : 58
Join date : 2012-03-24
Posts : 183
SPAAM Cash : 814
Reputation : 16
Location : Chicago Area

Back to top Go down

Re: Ivan Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Jason Varitek, e.t.c Retired! Your thoughts?

Post by coachk28 on Tue May 01, 2012 4:57 am

True about Pudge and steroids.

But with all these borderline players getting into the Hall of Fame lately... I think they both get in eventually.

If Posada played any other position besides catcher... His numbers aren't good enough. But not too many catchers average 20+ HRs and 90+ RBIs a season for their career!

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  l  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  l   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  l    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] l [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
avatar
coachk28
SPAAM Founder
Chief Administrator

 SPAAM Founder  Chief Administrator

Age : 37
Join date : 2011-12-14
Posts : 3296
SPAAM Cash : 13332
Reputation : 207
Location : Chicago, IL

http://coachkscollection.weebly.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Ivan Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Jason Varitek, e.t.c Retired! Your thoughts?

Post by lerxst2112 on Tue May 01, 2012 4:17 pm

If you look at Sabermetrics to compare players you can come up with some arguements for and against HOF inclusion for players. WAR is probably the most popular total value stat out there today, a single number that attempts to quantify a player's worth by looking at his offense, defense (or pitching), defensive position, and the context of the year and league. WAR is basically one attempt at a single number that usefully expresses a player's worth and can be compared to all other players. here are a few career WAR stats to compare some of these players by.

Johnny Bench 71.2 HOF
Carlton Fisk 67.3 HOF
Ivan Rodriguez 67.3
Gary Carter 66.3 HOF
Yogi Berra 61.9 HOF
Mike Piazza 59.1
Joe Torre 55.6
Bill Dickey 54.3 HOF
Mickey Cochrane 51.2 HOF
Ted Simmons 50.4
Gabby Hartnett 50.3 HOF
Gene Tenace 48.7
Jorge Posada 44.7

As a reference other non catchers not in the HOF with better WAR than Posasa
Larry Walker 67.1
Alan Trammel 66.8
Jim Edmunds 66.6

Ron Santo's WAR was 66.4 How long did it take him to get in?
avatar
lerxst2112
Benchwarmer
Benchwarmer

Age : 58
Join date : 2012-03-24
Posts : 183
SPAAM Cash : 814
Reputation : 16
Location : Chicago Area

Back to top Go down

Re: Ivan Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Jason Varitek, e.t.c Retired! Your thoughts?

Post by coachk28 on Tue May 01, 2012 6:13 pm

Don't get me started on WAR!

I had a debate about WAR on here earlier with someone. I really wish I could find the posts.

WAR is a horrible way to measure players.

Luis Gonzalez (OF / 1990-2008) had a WAR of 46.4

Thats higher than the WARs of...

Ralph Kiner
Kirby Puckett
Nellie Fox
Dale Murphy
Tony Oliva
Jim Rice
Red Schoendienst
Don Mattingly
Roger Maris
Felipe Alou
Lou Brock
George Kell


So does that mean Luis Gonzalez gets in the HOF? Don't even count the steroid issue... just based on WAR alone!

I rest my case!!!

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  l  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  l   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  l    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] l [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
avatar
coachk28
SPAAM Founder
Chief Administrator

 SPAAM Founder  Chief Administrator

Age : 37
Join date : 2011-12-14
Posts : 3296
SPAAM Cash : 13332
Reputation : 207
Location : Chicago, IL

http://coachkscollection.weebly.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Ivan Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Jason Varitek, e.t.c Retired! Your thoughts?

Post by coachk28 on Tue May 01, 2012 7:00 pm

Not everyone gets into the HOF b/c they are an amazing overall well rounded player (offense, defense, baserunning), or versus how their WAR compares to another player.

Many guys get in because while they were playing/during their time period they were the best at what they did.

Power hitting catchers that sustain such numbers over their entire career are rare.

When you look at what Jorge Posada did over his entire career... especially during the 2000's... I think he eventually gets in the HOF!

Especially if you count out guys like Pudge and Piazza because of steroids!


Jorge Posada 2000's Decade Stats:
.283 BA, 208 HR, 819 RBI
162-Game Average: .283 BA, 26 HR, 102 RBI
.300+ BA Seasons: 1
20+ HR Seasons: 8
80+ RBI Seasons: 8
All-Star Appearances: 5 (two starts)
Silver Sluggers: 5
World Series Champion: 2




_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  l  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  l   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  l    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] l [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
avatar
coachk28
SPAAM Founder
Chief Administrator

 SPAAM Founder  Chief Administrator

Age : 37
Join date : 2011-12-14
Posts : 3296
SPAAM Cash : 13332
Reputation : 207
Location : Chicago, IL

http://coachkscollection.weebly.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Ivan Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Jason Varitek, e.t.c Retired! Your thoughts?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum